Any Volunteers to Teach Jesus and Some Others About "Holy Conferencing?"

We believe Christians can discuss important issues without the acrimonious debate and parliamentary maneuvering that can divide a group into contending factions. We see too many examples of that in secular society. We believe the Holy Spirit leads in all things, especially as we make decisions. We want to avoid making decisions in a fashion that leaves some feeling like winners and others losers. --- from "Guidelines for Holy Conferencing - What God Expects of Us" as printed in W. PA Annual Conference (United Methodist Church) pre-conference reports and legislation information.

As one looks at the guidelines for "holy conferencing" it is quite obvious that someone needs to confront Jesus and at least a couple or so others in the New Testament about the fact of their defiance of these standards with the result of causing deep division and being guilty of making some feel like winners and others losers!

We won't even try to include the Old Testament prophets on this matter at the present time -- that would add quite a number to the list of those failing to do "holy conferencing" in addition to Jesus and others in the 1st Century.

A couple of those guidelines state, "Every person is a child of God. Always speak respectfully. One can disagree without being disagreeable.....Avoid using inflammatory words, derogatory names, or an excited and angry voice."

Now consider how Jesus handled Himself on certain occasions:

"I am One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me." Then they said to Him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus answered, "You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also."....... Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God." --- John 8:18, 19, 42-47

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.......Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar." --- Matthew 23:15, 33-35

Paul didn't seem to be a practitioner of "holy conferencing" on various occasions:

Then Saul, who also is called Paul, filled with the Holy Spirit, looked intently at him and said, "O full of all deceit and all fraud, you son of the devil, you enemy of all righteousness, will you not cease perverting the straight ways of the Lord? And now, indeed, the hand of the Lord is upon you, and you shall be blind, not seeing the sun for a time." And immediately a dark mist fell on him, and he went around seeking someone to lead him by the hand. --- Acts 13:9-11

And the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. For so the Lord has commanded us: 'I have set you to be a light to the Gentiles, that you should be for salvation to the ends of the earth.'" --- Acts 13:44-47

Ought we not take a look also at Stephen who is described as one who was filled with the Holy Spirit? But what is this? Speaking to a group of very religious people (the kind who should engage in "holy conferencing") he gives a history lesson and then concludes:

"You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it." When they heard these things they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed at him with their teeth. --- Acts 7:51-54

Oh yes, we must not forget that very radical cousin of Jesus, John the Baptist! Is it not possible that those who are strong advocates of "holy conferencing" and doing "dialog" would have more than a tad of difficulty with this fellow today? Is he guilty of name calling or what?

In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, and saying, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!" For this is he who was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying: "The voice of one crying in the wilderness: 'Prepare the way of the LORD, make His paths straight.'" And John himself was clothed in camel's hair, with a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them, "Brood of vipers! Who has warned you to flee from the wrath to come? "Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance, and do not think to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones." --- Matthew 3:1-9

Maybe I missed it -- do you see any place where John announces, "Brothers and sisters, it's time for us to enter into a "holy conferencing" experience since we have some serious issues which need to be addressed." It is noted, however, that this man was filled with the Holy Spirit from the time of his birth. Hmmmmm -- filled with the Holy Spirit, but yet did no "holy conferencing" as is stressed in church circles these days! The way he acted is it possible he wouldn't be permitted to enter a lot of churches today -- that is, unless he kept his mouth totally shut?

Just a few of many examples drawn from an infallible source of information which indicate that "holy conferencing" was not a priority when it came to confrontations over various issues. Jesus, of course, is the prime example. It appears that He was not too convinced that one just has to dialog and do the "holy conferencing" thing. But this one thing He did, and which He calls us to do -- be witnesses to God's eternal truth always -- no compromising on that! But that is where the problem is -- too many have bought into the idea that absolute moral truth does not really exist, and this provides the perfect climate for dialog and "holy conferencing!"

No where do you see any indication that God was willing to enter into dialog about anything -- He draws the line on all moral and spiritual issues. He defines what is acceptable and what is unacceptable on human sexuality, but in dialog and "holy conferencing" we want to erase the line God has drawn or else come up with an agreement that it is a "fuzzy" issue and we don't quite fully agree on it yet, but we'll continue to engage in "holy conferencing" until we do -- maybe it will happen at the next General Conference of the United Methodist Church in 2012!

On the most critical spiritual issue, God has said that we either are forgiven and restored to righteousness through His Son, Jesus Christ, or we are not -- plain and simple! But the conferencing and dialog sessions come to the conclusion that whatever "religion" you may practice is good enough -- Christianity is but one of many peas in the same pod -- just pick the one that seems to fit and work best for you!

So then, who will put the bell on the cat -- oooops! I mean, who will volunteer to confront Jesus and the others with the fact that they have violated the guidelines for "holy conferencing?" If we have more than one, maybe we can get up a committee to do it! In mainline denominations especially, is that not the only way anything can be done these days?

I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. --- 2 Timothy 4:1-4

Yes, Virginia, in Such a World As This, Negatives Are Very Necessary!

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel! Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." Jesus speaking in Matthew 23:23-28

"Always be positive -- be an upbeat person -- have a perpetual smile on your face -- do as the song of long ago exhorts, 'Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative...!'"

Many are the voices that broadcast the "positive" message in our culture. Books by the ton have been mass produced on the subject. Not a few church leaders and pastors make no secret of the fact that being "positive" on a 24/7 basis is the only way to go.

Is there a place for negatives in today's world? As I mentioned one time in communicating with a TV news anchor person who told me I was too negative -- I said to him, "Negatives are necessary in our world -- try starting your car sometime without a negative post on your battery!"

An honest search and evaluation of the holy Scriptures will reveal quite a bit of "negative" material!

God is portrayed as a God Who can either be very positive or very negative depending on the response we humans make to His call to repent of our sins and receive His forgiveness, which for 2,000 years has been graciously offered through His Son, Jesus Christ.

Let's honestly face it for once -- God was pretty negative when He wiped out the world with a flood a long time ago with only 8 people surviving -- and He was quite negative when He destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, was He not?

If you dare, read slowly and ponder long on the messages of the Old Testament prophets -- a lot of very negative stuff is found in their statements.

But why did they so often talk a "negative" talk? The answer is really quite simple -- they lived in times of ethical, moral, and spiritual corruption. God called them to denounce the wickedness of their generations and to declare the need to repent and turn to God. Much more often than not the response was a negative -- "We will continue in our sin, and if God doesn't like it, that's tough -- we like things just the way they are with no changes being made in the way we now live!"

The best summary of the pattern is seen in 2 Chronicles 36 -- God's compassion (a very positive thing) -- His urgent appeal -- rejection of the appeal by the citizens and their religious and political leaders -- finally the crossing over the line -- and then judgment by God, which proved to be a very "negative" experience of the first magnitude!

More tragic than that historical event is the fact that the very same pattern is being repeated in a republic known as the United States of America!

Strangely, there are church leaders who, in their great emphasis on being "positive," attempt to point to Jesus as the One Who was very "positive" -- you know, all love and compassion all the time. Have you looked at Matthew 23 lately? And note especially that His remarks were directed toward the religious "elite" of the day.

Jesus also referred to King Herod as a "fox" -- a label which was not intended to be complimentary! Are political leaders deserving of such a negative term?

So long as our nation and the world of which it is a small part continue in their present courses of direction there will be a critical need for "negatives."

That's the way it is, Virginia, whether you like it or not!

"Cry aloud, spare not; lift up your voice like a trumpet; tell My people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins." --- Isaiah 58:1

Always Be Positive in Thinking, Speaking and All You Do Otherwise!

"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, 'If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.' Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city......" --- words spoken by Jesus Christ in Matthew 23:27-34

Books have been written on the subject -- seminars have been held -- therapy sessions get into it -- talk show hosts/hostesses will hammer on the subject -- and psychologists/psychiatrists have a field day with it as they underscore the need for a healthy sense of "self esteem" -- church leaders really take this ball and run with it and sometimes it appears that United Methodist bishops try to corner the market on the issue!

And just what is the issue? Why it's this thing of always being positive -- be positive in your attitude and thinking -- and when you speak (and presumably when you preach, so far as church leaders are concerned) always be positive. Don't be negative or critical of anyone or anything! And by all means, back up your positive attitude, thinking and speech with the way you act. Seems that some are convinced (or deluded, you pick out which) that if this positive thing goes far enough and spreads among the population like a measles epidemic, then we will have ushered in a paradise on earth! Yea, I already know -- someone is going to say I have a negative and sarcastic attitude about this thing!

But hang on for a bit longer -- a question or two -- is there no place for negatives in our country and in our world at all? I remember an irate email received one time from a news anchor person at a TV station. I had written in about an issue, and yes, I had been negative in some statements I made. In his reply he made reference to the fact that I was quite negative in what I had said. So I replied in a few statements and reminded him that it is necessary to have some negatives in this world -- "...try starting your car with only a positive post on your battery and see how far you get!" was my parting statement.

It is an extremely rare occasion if a church leader or pastor makes reference to certain actions and statements on the part of Jesus. Or they may just bypass that section of Scripture altogether because it isn't something very soothing to sleep on at night! A brief quote from Jesus is mentioned above. Did you notice the "labels" He used and the persons to whom those labels were applied? If He were being considered for the position of pastor of a large suburban church and the committee responsible for determining the hiring (and firing) of a pastor knew Jesus had said the above things to very religious people, do you think He would get the job? Or in an episcopal system such as the United Methodist Church, do you think a bishop would appoint Jesus to serve a church when it was known that He was so critical and labeled persons in such negative terms? Or maybe Jesus would be put on probation on the condition that He undergo psychiatric counseling for an extended period in order to get this negative stuff out of His system!

If you chopped all the "negatives" out of the Bible and shredded them, you would have a rather thin book left -- or maybe it would more be like a booklet. You would have to eliminate major portions of the Old Testament prophets and once you got done with John the Baptist, there wouldn't be much information remaining about him either.

But why those negatives in the Bible anyway? Everything would have been positive if sin had not invaded the human race. Then came God's revelation as to what He expected by way of human performance and human relationships. Since humans are born with an inclination toward self-centered motives, defiance and rebellion so far as God is concerned, then the negatives come into play. It just isn't sufficient to say, "Now boys and girls, God is good, and we ought to listen to God and mind Him all the time." For a good example as to how the positives and the negatives are spelled out, read Deuteronomy 28, which was referred to in an earlier post here. God spells out the positives -- the blessings which will come for total obedience to Him. But then He takes nearly 4 times as much space (or statements) to spell out the negatives -- the cursings and calamities which will come upon the people for disobedience to His laws and standards!

Must a Christian be always positive -- all the time every day of every week of every month of every year? Think on this -- must your doctor be always positive? Suppose he finds some cancer growing inside you and you ask him what he is going to do. He says he will do nothing -- he is being positive and the cancer cells have as much right to live in the body as those considered to be "normal" and they should be treated with the same respect as the "normal" cells! Would you accept that, or would you insist that those cancer cells must be destroyed -- cut the body open and cut out every cancer cell because if it isn't done, you will die! But that is being a bit negative on your part, isn't it?

A parting question -- if you are a Christian, what are you attempting to do about the spiritual and moral cancer that has invaded the church and those who are infected, including church leaders? What do you think ought to be done about a church leader who says we ought not to send missionaries to foreign countries to convert people to Jesus Christ -- those people over there have their own religion and we ought not to disrupt that? Come on now, let's hear it in this day and age when we are pressured to sit down to the table and "dialog" with those of other religious expessions, put Jesus Christ on the shelf, and say in so many words, "Your religion is just as good as mine -- there are many paths to the top of the mountain, and I am committed to being absolutely positive about all religions in today's world!"

And He found in the temple those who sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the moneychangers doing business. When He had made a whip of cords, He drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and the oxen, and poured out the changers' money and overturned the tables. And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away! Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!" --- Jesus performing in John 2:14-16